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YOU ARE HERE:>>REAL or FAKE>>Is this genuine? section 4

17th Novemebr 07

Michael  has sent these pics, which though not very clear are, in my view, clear enough to suggest that this is not an antiquity but something probably manufactured in the Egyptomania craze in the 1920s.

Michael is very disinclined to acept what I have said.

I believe I am in a possesion of an plate describing the ritual of sacrafice to the God Osiris. Its bronze and it still has very visible marks of the palm oil on the back. On the front of the plate the ritual is engarved in silver (between the engraving  there is a thick layer of palm oil).

It has two circles and in the third center circle the God Osiris is sitting getting gifts. The plate is approx. 30 cm in diameter.

By search of the sites I beleive that is XXVI dynasty.

I would say extremely valuable relic of the ancient Egypt.

I am pretty dissaponited by your opinion.

However I KNOW TOO MUCH. Will look around by more knowlegable atique collector.

I must point out the back of the plate. It still has very visible traces of palm oil that someone has removed. And you must also know that all of the relics were dripped completely into the palm oil before the funerals of priests or kings  queens...

Maybe you could consult someone on this issue ??

If you beleive your instincts and you think it is a fake please be free to drop the discussion.

P.S. Palm oil's  age can be determined by C14 method.

So..........

By search of the sites I beleive that is XXVI dynasty, but it may be MUCH earlier.

Why earlier: because on the edge of the plate there are three pyramids. They look like GREAT pyramids but I doubt if they may be the three smaller pyramids that were built much earlier. Sometimes ago those smaller pyramids were beleived to belonged to the wives of three Kings of the Nile.As Osiris has come after the Anubis it IS most likely the case that the plate is VERY OLD.

May I remind you that the Anubis priest wears the jackal mask while Osiris priests are pictured in a human form. May I again remind that Anubis did the FIRST preparation for the mumification of the Osiris priest or at least the experts are saying.

Mr. Bron as I have solid education in physics and mathematics  and may I stress that the melting temperature of the bronze is 900 degrees Celsius and Silver is 960 degrees Celsius.

I mentioned the C14 method as the Sun still emits a rain of neutrons that atom of carbon catches in its nuclear. You may consult nuclear scientists about that.

And Mr. Bron, if you decide to make any arrangements, be sure that the plate won't be the same price as Osiris bronze statue worth 20000 $USA but much more.

 From Lluis

17th November

Well, I have some doubts also.

-If there a silver inlaid, corrossion should be expected, because silver and copper makes a nice cell. That leads to the inlay falling apart, at least in some parts.

I have been told that many inlaids are repaired. For what I see from pictures, is repaired or is in pristine condition?

-Palm oil has very low content in polyinsaturated oils. The main insaturated oil is glyceryl oleate, and that is hard to polymerize.

Then I suppose that remnants could be easily removed. I see no need to find remnants after being cleaned.

-There is any test done to confirm that this is palm oil? By eye, I doubt very much anyone could say what a grease is.

-If there is a grease, copper tends to form a copper salt, that is usually green.

I do not see. Also, that grease will ruinate very soon the inlaid, making the carved surfaces where silver is placed to corrode, and expulsing the silver.

Yes, could be the plate be legit, but then it should be cleaned and repaired at least.

By the way: yes, date of an organic compound could be attested by C14 measurings.

Just that I was told, many years ago, when I finished my career in chemistry, that due that synthetic ethyl alcohol were not allowed for some uses, only natural alcohol, some people added C14 rich alcohol to fool the tests....That said by the Dr. that carries the tests  :-)

From Kim

Back in 1989 when I went over to Egypt, my Husband, Phillip and I had gone to a couple of market places in Egypt, where we had picked out plates (if you can call them that) and I do recall seeing something like that plate over there. They have a couple of different motifs, but all very similar to each other.

Yep, that was my thoughts too: does not look ancient Egyptian in style at all.

From Dr G

From the 1900s not ancient.

From Tim 

The most obvious thing is that it is 'all pictures and no glyphs' - which is just not the way that the ancient Egyptians did things...

I think it's likely to be a 1920s Egyptian Revival piece rather than a tourist souvenir like these.

In fact  Bonhams will be holding 'The Egyptian Revival Sale' on 23rd January 2008, an auction of works of art inspired by Ancient Egypt, which will coincide with the Tutankhamun Exhibition at the O2 Dome.
 
The event will include a short talk by Lord and Lady Carnarvon. Lord Carnarvon is the great grandson of the fifth Earl who funded Howard Carter's exploration, which led to the great discovery of Tutankhamun's tomb.

Next page: an interesting Egyptian stele